The following are translated excerpts from an interview, broadcast live on Halalit TV, with Moshe Feiglin.
Welcome to Moshe Feiglin.
Thank you, it’s good to be here, with a great view of the American embassy sitting steadfastly here on the Tel Aviv coast.
You know, when you were interviewed here a few months ago, we ended the broadcast with a question that you asked: “Do you really think the US embassy is going to move to Jerusalem?” I thought you were crazy. But now, Donald Trump is the president - as you had predicted two years ago – and he is not moving the embassy.
Yes, I explained that it would not happen – not because he doesn’t want it to – but because Netanyahu doesn’t want it.
And you also said that in a certain way, Trump is bad for Israel.
Not because Trump himself is bad. But Netanyahu has maneuvered him to the positions of Obama. When you have a rightist promoting the Left’s plan, because it is all he has left, that is much more dangerous. We all remember Ariel Sharon, the rightist who destroyed Gush Katif. Because only the ‘rightist’ Likud can destroy settlements and perhaps only Trump can do the same. Now those two factors have united. The embassy will not move to Jerusalem. Trump already understands that Israel cannot think outside the leftist Oslo box. And Trump has already been maneuvered back to the old Oslo diplomatic process idea. By not allowing Trump to move the embassy, Netanyahu let the Oslo genie back out of the bottle and he will not be able to control it.
You have written a political platform that is the most detailed and all-encompassing of any platform ever written in Israel. Why aren’t you talking now about the economy, society? Why are you returning us to the diplomatic plan? We are interested in other things. Surely your advisors have told you to talk about other things – liberalism and the like. Why return us to Oslo?
The platform, 312 pages, is about how we can be truly free Jews in our Land. The Diplomatic Plan is at the end of the book. Our focus should be internal affairs and Jewish identity. But we anticipate that the agenda here in Israel in the coming months is going to be diplomatic. This is the 50th year of the liberation of Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria. And Trump is also coming to Israel. But in the marketplace of ideas, the People of Israel are familiar with only one solution. The Oslo solution.
But Bennet also has a plan…
Bennet’s plan is identical to Beilin’s plan from 20 years ago. The only difference between Bennet and Netanyahu is in semantics – how they refer to Israeli retreat. Will we call it Area C or Blocs?
Zehut is the first political party in Israel that, since the liberation of Jerusalem in 1967, proposes a solution for Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria based on one state – not two. It is the only solution, the only applicable solution, the only just, practical, ethical, democratic solution that will bring the most security and peace to Israel - until the Mashiach comes.
Your diplomatic plan also includes the economic, strategic, security, and demography aspects. It has a plan for a naturalization process, compensation for those who leave and more. So why doesn’t the Israeli political consensus want to accept it?
It is important to understand the basis of all of this. Dr.Ron Pundak, the architect of Oslo, clearly admits that peace is not the goal of Oslo. It is not so hard to understand this. When you set out on a mad Oslo experiment, and you get exploding buses and restaurants blowing up in smithereens, countless dead and injured…
Actually, it is very symbolic that Moshe Feiglin, the first to go out and protest against the nightmare Oslo Accords, will be the person to rid us of it. You were the first one to take to the streets.
Those who surrender to the Oslo mentality, to the Two-State-Solution, those who start to talk about Areas A, B, C – those who are totally mired in the Oslo swamp, cannot pull others out of it. As our Sages say, “A prisoner cannot release himself from prison.”
Those who fought against Oslo, who voiced their liberated opinion against the Oslo concept are the same people who can present a coherent concept today. I really do see this plan as a form of closure. From saying, “This is our Land,” which was the name of the anti-Oslo protest movement, to saying, “This is our Land” – not in the streets, but diplomatically, democratically, in a liberal and authentic manner. We are saying to the Israeli public, “You already understand that no real diplomatic process will be originated by the Left, you already understand that all that you get from the Left’s ideas are more and more rounds of fighting, rockets, cement roadblocks and more. So now is the time to listen to someone who understood where Oslo would lead us from the very start, who is proposing a practical idea that is firmly grounded in the demographic, economic and local and international legal facts. Our plan answers the most significant questions – there is an entire chapter of questions and answers. People ask: To where will the Arabs emigrate? Is any state really willing to accept them? And the answer is that there absolutely are states willing to accept them. People do not know the simple facts.
What do you say about Donald Trump?
When he began his campaign I said that he would win – both during the Republican primaries and in the general elections. And I said that he would be bad for Israel. Not because he hates Israel – on the contrary – I believe that he loves Israel. I said he would be bad for Israel because I realized that Trump would meet an Israeli government that would force him to be bad for Israel – just as we are seeing now with the embassy issue. The person who prevented the embassy’s move to Jerusalem is not Trump, but Netanyahu. Trump wanted to move the embassy. In other words, the reaction created by a strong and energetic person like Trump, who meets an Israeli government that does not propose any way out of the dead end other than the Oslo process brought to us by the Left –will propel an energetic bulldozer like Trump to find a way out. He will adopt the Left’s plan, but he will do so much more effectively than the Left. He will be more Left than the Left. That is what happened with Sharon and Gush Katif. Now we will have a combination of the Likud, which is the only party that can uproot Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria, here in Israel – with Trump in the US. Here, there is no Opposition to uprooting towns because it is the Likud implementing it, in the US the Democrats will certainly not oppose a ‘peace process’ led by the Republicans, the two will meet here and that is a very dangerous situation. For that reason, Trump’s presidency is going to turn out badly for us. And that is why it is critical for us to get our Diplomatic Plan out to the public now. So that the Israeli public will be armed with knowledge. There are answers. There is a good alternative to the Two-State-Solution. One State for One Nation.
If things turn out badly for Israel, it will not be Trump’s fault. It will be our fault.
And you also said that in a certain way, Trump is bad for Israel.
Not because Trump himself is bad. But Netanyahu has maneuvered him to the positions of Obama. When you have a rightist promoting the Left’s plan, because it is all he has left, that is much more dangerous. We all remember Ariel Sharon, the rightist who destroyed Gush Katif. Because only the ‘rightist’ Likud can destroy settlements and perhaps only Trump can do the same. Now those two factors have united. The embassy will not move to Jerusalem. Trump already understands that Israel cannot think outside the leftist Oslo box. And Trump has already been maneuvered back to the old Oslo diplomatic process idea. By not allowing Trump to move the embassy, Netanyahu let the Oslo genie back out of the bottle and he will not be able to control it.
You have written a political platform that is the most detailed and all-encompassing of any platform ever written in Israel. Why aren’t you talking now about the economy, society? Why are you returning us to the diplomatic plan? We are interested in other things. Surely your advisors have told you to talk about other things – liberalism and the like. Why return us to Oslo?
The platform, 312 pages, is about how we can be truly free Jews in our Land. The Diplomatic Plan is at the end of the book. Our focus should be internal affairs and Jewish identity. But we anticipate that the agenda here in Israel in the coming months is going to be diplomatic. This is the 50th year of the liberation of Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria. And Trump is also coming to Israel. But in the marketplace of ideas, the People of Israel are familiar with only one solution. The Oslo solution.
But Bennet also has a plan…
Bennet’s plan is identical to Beilin’s plan from 20 years ago. The only difference between Bennet and Netanyahu is in semantics – how they refer to Israeli retreat. Will we call it Area C or Blocs?
Zehut is the first political party in Israel that, since the liberation of Jerusalem in 1967, proposes a solution for Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria based on one state – not two. It is the only solution, the only applicable solution, the only just, practical, ethical, democratic solution that will bring the most security and peace to Israel - until the Mashiach comes.
Your diplomatic plan also includes the economic, strategic, security, and demography aspects. It has a plan for a naturalization process, compensation for those who leave and more. So why doesn’t the Israeli political consensus want to accept it?
It is important to understand the basis of all of this. Dr.Ron Pundak, the architect of Oslo, clearly admits that peace is not the goal of Oslo. It is not so hard to understand this. When you set out on a mad Oslo experiment, and you get exploding buses and restaurants blowing up in smithereens, countless dead and injured…
Actually, it is very symbolic that Moshe Feiglin, the first to go out and protest against the nightmare Oslo Accords, will be the person to rid us of it. You were the first one to take to the streets.
Those who surrender to the Oslo mentality, to the Two-State-Solution, those who start to talk about Areas A, B, C – those who are totally mired in the Oslo swamp, cannot pull others out of it. As our Sages say, “A prisoner cannot release himself from prison.”
Those who fought against Oslo, who voiced their liberated opinion against the Oslo concept are the same people who can present a coherent concept today. I really do see this plan as a form of closure. From saying, “This is our Land,” which was the name of the anti-Oslo protest movement, to saying, “This is our Land” – not in the streets, but diplomatically, democratically, in a liberal and authentic manner. We are saying to the Israeli public, “You already understand that no real diplomatic process will be originated by the Left, you already understand that all that you get from the Left’s ideas are more and more rounds of fighting, rockets, cement roadblocks and more. So now is the time to listen to someone who understood where Oslo would lead us from the very start, who is proposing a practical idea that is firmly grounded in the demographic, economic and local and international legal facts. Our plan answers the most significant questions – there is an entire chapter of questions and answers. People ask: To where will the Arabs emigrate? Is any state really willing to accept them? And the answer is that there absolutely are states willing to accept them. People do not know the simple facts.
What do you say about Donald Trump?
When he began his campaign I said that he would win – both during the Republican primaries and in the general elections. And I said that he would be bad for Israel. Not because he hates Israel – on the contrary – I believe that he loves Israel. I said he would be bad for Israel because I realized that Trump would meet an Israeli government that would force him to be bad for Israel – just as we are seeing now with the embassy issue. The person who prevented the embassy’s move to Jerusalem is not Trump, but Netanyahu. Trump wanted to move the embassy. In other words, the reaction created by a strong and energetic person like Trump, who meets an Israeli government that does not propose any way out of the dead end other than the Oslo process brought to us by the Left –will propel an energetic bulldozer like Trump to find a way out. He will adopt the Left’s plan, but he will do so much more effectively than the Left. He will be more Left than the Left. That is what happened with Sharon and Gush Katif. Now we will have a combination of the Likud, which is the only party that can uproot Jewish towns in Judea and Samaria, here in Israel – with Trump in the US. Here, there is no Opposition to uprooting towns because it is the Likud implementing it, in the US the Democrats will certainly not oppose a ‘peace process’ led by the Republicans, the two will meet here and that is a very dangerous situation. For that reason, Trump’s presidency is going to turn out badly for us. And that is why it is critical for us to get our Diplomatic Plan out to the public now. So that the Israeli public will be armed with knowledge. There are answers. There is a good alternative to the Two-State-Solution. One State for One Nation.
If things turn out badly for Israel, it will not be Trump’s fault. It will be our fault.
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